Forums - CvS2 Maki Show all 95 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- CvS2 Maki (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=37383) Posted by Edma on 08:26:2001 05:50 AM: CvS2 Maki Just thought I'd post some initial stuff on Maki after playing her the past few times I trekked up to SHGL. I didn't notice any difference in her between the beta and final version. Not that I was lloking for differences or anything but at least you can assume more or less anything you figure out for her in the beta should work the same in the final. Let me start off by saying that I really like her a lot. She is a very complete character and not just a one trick pony at all. Now if you are playing her because you played Guy in A3(like I am) her whole gameplan is different from Guy's. His is all about getting in your face and staying there the entire time. Maki is more about dancing around her opponent. She'll want to eventually get in the other person's face but she'll want to fly around a bit and sorta take the detour route in getting there. And then she'll want to maybe run back away before going back in. Basically she has a lot of options in her arsenal with her many, many running variations and is a very trickster oriented character(my favorite style!). Also, this might sound kinda stupid but she is a very intense character to play. You'll be hitting a lot of buttons and doing lots of motions and have to be playing on the fly much of the time. Anyway, here's a quick breakdown of her normals and whatnot(is this one word?). --------------------------------------------------------------------- Standing cancelable normals - Jab, Close Strong, Close Fierce, Short, Close Forward Crouching cancelable normals - Jab, Strong, Fierce(not sure?), Short Super cancelable normals - Pretty much everything standing I think is super cancelable. So if you're a bit too far away to do anything of good damage after someone misses like a uppercut or something, use her standing sp or fp(great range) and super cancel into her qcf, qcf kick super and hit kick right away. Don't know about crouching normals. Best normal so far(if I had to pick one out) seems to me to be her standing FK. Basically the same as Guy's standing FK poke. I'm not sure why you'd ever want to use her far standing SP instead except for maybe issues of priority/distance/speed/personal preference or just for the sake of doing something different. The FK seems faster to me at the moment. Second best is probably her generic crouching FP as really good anti-air. Also it's damn fast to come out and recover. A very nice thing if that her standing jab seems to hit most crouchers. Worst so far seems to be either crouching strong(not sure at the moment as while it has less range then her jab it probably has good stuffing potential and is also cancelable and maybe has to be blocked low) or standing RK(like Guy's close RK) but it may be good anti-air of sorts in that it can maybe hit people who jump straight up and down. It recovers pretty quickly anyway and I was thinking maybe you could do it to get close to a crouching person and then super grab right away. My 720 skills need some practice now though. Oh yeah, jumping down strong has IMMENSE priority at the right angle. I don't know if it's just uppercuts suck now(many have definetly been toned down and it will probably take a bit of time before people figure out which uppercut version beats what) but I've seen her elbow beat all sorts of anti-air clean including Ryu's uppercut(in beta and don't know which version uppercut) near it's startup. But make sure when you use it don't jump when you're too close because people will just walk underneath you and punish you. Actually as a general rule, much like Guy you don't really need to jump too much with her. If you do jump do it from at least half screen distance. Really, her running gives her ALL, and I do mean ALL, the ground mobility she needs. Walk speed is ok, not super quick like Guy but should be faster then average. I wish it was a little faster though. Maybe it was just the overall machine speed I thought was too slow. Anyway, I won't explain each normal as that would take a lot of time and I'm not writing a strategy guide at the moment. Maybe later. Speaking of mobility, her roll seems pretty average in speed and distance. I never really noticed any differences in CvS unless it was really obvious. Like Terry or Guile roll obvious but that's just me. You can still go for the ghetto tatic of roll into 720 with her when you feel like it. Let's see, her specials all seem pretty good. Her basic qcf punch move where she turns and lunges forward with a big punch is pretty good. It's nice in that it seems to be a safe, good priority knockdown move to do(and when ever is that not nice to have) because you can do it from a distance and then she retracts I think to either her starting position or maybe a little bit closer. So it's pretty hard to psychic DP and maybe you'll end up trading anyway. Now I don't know about the recovery time being COMPLETELY safe. Best way to tell probably is to see if she can be lvl 3 psycho crushered after being blocked. Damn that super HURTS. Since it's kinda early it's kinda hard to explain clearly how to effectively use her running or at least how I use it. Right now, I sort of just run for the hell of running's sake. I only found out recently that you don't have to stop a run to do another run command. So you can run forward then run backward and vice versa all very smoothly without stopping. This improves her game SO much and makes her SO much fun to play IMO. Also, a BIG BIG BIG imporvement over Guy is that when you run, the finishing move that you do isn't dependent on what kick button you used to start the run. So on gut feeling you can make up your mind about what you want to do based on the current situation whether it be stop, overhead, low hit, or run backward which has it's own mutiple set of enders. This is huge and I think explains her slower walk speed cause now you can run without fear of commiting to a disasterous move unlike Guy. Plus this adds to the fear factor in the other guy. Actually, all her forward run enders are REALLY good and REALLY fast. If you're not blocking low when she inputs the command to kick low you're getting hit. And done at the right distance even the low kick is really hard to punish if even possible. Her high kick overhead if blocked I'm pretty sure is plain unpunishable. Her running into stop tricks are just as good as Guy's. And the ability to run backward obviously adds a whole new dimension to her. Her ability to, if she wants to, quickly get to you no matter where she is or which direction she is going when running I think is what her gameplan is mostly centered around. That and the fact that she has some good solid normals(like c. FP to handle jumpers who try to beat your running with jumping) are what I think make her a complete character, able to handle any situation and be a threat from anywhere on the screen(well sorta be a threat from anywher on the screen). But you'll have to mix it up really well in order to keep the other person guessing with her. Hmm, I guess I didn't really explain exactly what her running stuff looks like huh? If it's confusing, sorry. I'll try to explain better if anyone wants. Anyway, on to her supers. 720 grab is great. Invincible startup and instant recovery make it SO good. Damn, if only it was just a 360 like CvS Yamazaki's, uh, TOO good. I bet someone will master the art of "tiger kneeing" into her air 720 cause I'm doing it all the time accidently. Anyway, I doubt level 1 is instant so if they are standing, maybe even crouching, and not doing anything, they can probably jump out of it. Gotta go, finish this later. Posted by Kyokugen Yuri on 08:26:2001 06:00 AM: Edma, were you the guy I wuz playing the first day it came out at SHGL? I was the guy asking if I could try out Hibiki's supers on you and I think you tried a CC with Sakura on me. Anyway, you have a great Maki. I have one question though. Don't you need to be in the air to do her 720 super? Posted by Edma on 08:26:2001 12:09 PM: Kyokugen Yuri: If you were there the first day it came out a couple of Sat's ago then yeah, I'm sure we played each other. A lot of people were playing Hibiki though so heh, sorry if I don't remember who you were. To answer your question Maki can 720 grab in the air and on the ground although how damn hard must it be to actually time a 720 in the air and grab someone? Wouldn't that be sick in a CC though? Oooohhh, evil combo thoughts are coming to me... Anyway, let me post some more about Maki. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I forgot to mention her KKK special were she twirls around and kicks for a bit. Despite the fact that using this move takes away a little bit of her energy ala Final Fight, USE this move. As far as I can tell, it is completely invincible on startup. You will NOT be crossing up Maki if she doesn't want to be with this move since she kicks all around and it is so easy to do. Another really great strategy is if you happen to be winning already by a good amount(say you wiped out his first character or something), this move makes it pretty damn hard for the opponent to catch up or for that matter, put up any kind of offense on her, especially jumping offense. Great, great move. I think it does have pretty bad recovery time though so you don't really want to miss with it. Oh, and if Maki has no life left(as in no pixels), then you can't use this move anymore. Cool huh? Oh, and this is her Alpha Counter too except she doesn't lose life then. Really good Alpha Counter. Speaking of Alpha Counters, I have yet to be able to kill anybody with AC's when they had no life left. So I guess AC's have been weakened even more now. She has a half circle air grab. It's okay for what it does I guess. Plus if you ever land it, you have plenty of time to gloat about it as she smacks then against the walls. Ok, so I already said her grab supers are pretty good. 720's have invincibility and instant recovery. Missing in the air makes her drop straight down and I think recover right away on landing. Her other two supers are basically combo supers, the punch one being used for close distance and the kick one being for covering distance quickly. Also, the kick one, one you press kick again sends her jumping kicking straight forward so she goes over ground fireballs. Don't know about Sagat's low fireball though. I'm not yet sure about the invincibilty yet at the different levels. Recovery time doesn't seem to be that great on the punch one but I don't know about the kick one. I figured out a CC for her. Pretty obvious but they have to be standing. Just do repeated Final Fight chains(jp, sp, fp, rk) and do punch super at the end. Does about 45% I think on same ratio. Nice and easy. Well, that's about it for now. Next time I go, I'll work on Eagle for a bit. I already played him enough to get an idea of how to play him and he doesn't seem that bad. Now for your own sake, stop playing MvC2 and go play CvS2 asap!!!!! (Advnce apoligies to people who don't have CvS2 near them and want to play. I know it sucks.) Posted by jchensor on 08:26:2001 07:07 PM: Grrgh! Heheh, no, it's all cool. The best thing is, once you showed me that you could change run directions at any point, and start the Runs with any button, man, Maki got fun REAL fast. I went back to Golfland the next day, and was copying all of your strats, annoying the hell out of peopple. ^_^ Maki is so much fun. - James Posted by Kyokugen Yuri on 08:27:2001 02:35 AM: Hey Edna. The basic combo you do with Maki when you have a free shot against somebody is close fierce and QCF+P right? Also have you highlighted what grooves work best with her? I think maybe P groove or N groove because you can add the low jump feature to her various mixup moves plus add the fact she's a quick character. One quick comment I'd like to make is that it seems like N groove has everything and stands out from all the other grooves for fast rushdown offense. By the way nice strats! I think I'm going to take up Athena first because I think she's easier to play and you can guard break the hell out of them chasing after her fireball like a Sonic Boom in N groove and then using her weak attacks chained into low fierce. Low fierce all day, throw fireball, teleport, crystal bit super as AA, etc. Posted by Devil Lee on 08:27:2001 05:52 AM: Thanks for the report! I was hoping to hear a little more on Maki. Posted by Edma on 08:27:2001 11:47 AM: Kyokugen Yuri: Yeah, that's the basic combo although I'm not sure if close FP misses crouchers so I've been sticking with SP. The Final Fight chain might do more though, I'm not sure. Although from now on, I'm using super whenever I get the chance since C-groove builds up meter like absolutely nothing. For now, I just stick with the CAP grooves since I'm most familiar with them. It's hard enough trying to learn a character much less a new playing style(groove) when everyone else is just playing their business characters and not experimenting at all. But yeah, N-groove probably is very offensive oriented. I mean, isn't offense what KOF was all about? Posted by HitmanStriker on 08:27:2001 06:59 PM: Hey Edma, have you ever played against a running and dodging Zangief? That stuff gets really annoying. I think that he is just viable in S groove. And I do agree that Maki will be a fun character. Will Nickel be getting CvS2 anytime soon? Nice strats on Maki. By the way this is Roy. We met at B5. Later. Posted by Ohayo on 08:28:2001 12:30 AM: Edmas friggin cheap, go make a maki custom fool and beat down mad foolz with iced up wrists Posted by Edma on 08:28:2001 04:11 AM: quote: Originally posted by HitmanStriker Will Nickel be getting CvS2 anytime soon? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!! One can only hope so... Actually, I haven't been to nickel since B5 so maybe they have it now... Wait! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!! So sad. I've played against a few Zangief's already but none of the really employed the run up, dodge, grab strategy. Personally, while I don't think Zangief totally sucks or anything, I do think he's really going to half to work his butt off and be patient as hell in any groove to get anywhere. I do see good Athena's completely and totally dominating him for absolutely free for one though. I see no way he could ever catch her cause of her teleports alone but we'll see. BTW, you're Geoff's friend right? Why do you care about Nickel anyway? You're arcade seemed pretty good at getting the recent stuff. Boo... Ohayo: Uh, iced up wrists, what? And I already came up with a Maki custom so there! Go make up a Sakura one or something. You should be happy enough since Sak's pretty good in this game IMO. Oh hey you know, with Sakura, you can stop her DP + kick move in mid air bu hitting kick to make her drop straight down. Tricky... Posted by ID on 08:28:2001 05:34 AM: Edma's Maki gives me magneto flashbacks. Posted by nex2me on 08:28:2001 06:17 AM: Chiming in in here about Maki.... I thought that I was one of the few ppl who picked her up right away. I also picked Egal but (IMO) there are certain aspects that just do not feel finished about him. Take for instance when he spins with the sticks out, you should be able to control his movement back and forth, and pass through FB (basically Zangief Spinnig Lariat) But I move on now... Playing in New York here is tough espically at CF with Justin racking up 97 wins in one day (that little bastard ^-^) with Hibiki, Mai and someone else. Anyway, Guy has always been one of my favorites in A3 so it semd like a natural pick up. BUT she is sooo much more. I started catching alot of ppl with the cross over Forward kick, chain combo. My 720 super is on point just that trying to catch ppl with it is hard sometimes cuz i activate too early and it whiffes in the air. I have been trying to catch the air 720 super as a i jump at an opponet who is in the aire but i either get hit or it doenst come out. So I pose this question to anyone. Should the motion after you jump be a continuation of the 720, or should the 720 start after you jump? I also have not tried the extended chain combo that Guy had in A3 (jp-qk-jp-mp-fp-fk----super) plus, and maybe this is just me and a timing thing, but it seems like on the 4-hit chain combo, the fk sometimes wiffs and misses... Posted by Andy on 08:28:2001 06:28 AM: Ed, sup man, I still have your batteries... When's the next time ur gonna be at SHGL? Unfortunately the two times I went there I haven't bumped into any decent Maki users yet. And no one plays Maki at Arcade Infinity where I normally play. And if you haven't heard, we're sitting up CvS2 in my apartment with MAS sticks on either PSX2 or DC when school starts up again (I live in La Jolla International Gardens this year) and we'll play and stuff. Jay and Long already said they'll be coming. If ur down, lemme know, I might be bringing down a big screen TV but if people will regularly come I'll have to use that TV I had last year (actually now that I thinka bout it I can't recall whether you came inside my dorm or not...) since Video Games burn out Big Screens fast for some reason... Anywayz... e-mail me at BoogaAndy@hotmail.com or something, my UCSD mail is down at the moment cuz I forgot my pw... let's hit up SHGL together I'm taking Jay's advice and think like a college student (how to save $ 101)... nice to see you're into this one, I know I am... past 2 days: Sunday: 6 hours at SHGL, 3 hours at AI Monday: 3 hours at AI after work. Planned for tomorrow, Tuesday: 4-5 hours at AI after work. I'm hooked =D Andy Anyone else wanna meet up at AI for CvS2 action lemme know! : ) Posted by makstaks on 08:28:2001 06:47 AM: First of all i suck. Second, thanks to Derek for letting me try out some stuff. I finally got a chance to play at SHGL and i think i got some strats and stuff you guys would like to try out. I'm sticking with C groove since the supers, air block, and roll seem to work best for her; at least in this preliminary stage. Where do i start... Low short, cancel into QCF+MK: (you guys calls it middle kick instead of forward right?). THis combos, even from far. I also use it when i get a jump-in. If they block the jump in kick, i go straight to down short, cancel into run, then alternate between ending the run with forward or roundhouse. If you end with roundhouse, that means your opponent had to block the whole combo high, low, then high again. Mind games... Using the above combo but ending with roundhouse: Don't cancel your run with roundhouse immediately like you would for a combo. Instead, let maki run forward for a split second more (most people should be blocking since they are afraid of getting grabbed), then press roundhouse...she will go behind their back. There's your 720 super. If you are close enough to cancel out a standing strong or fierce into run, then you have a better chance of getting this to fool them. QCF+punch: Sooo good. Try to use it all the time. There are so many strategies with this move...i could dedicate a page for it. Just remember to use it at its farthest possible distance. In many cases, throw them out twice in row, people can't resist but try to stick out a normal of thier own trying to hit you, but your second QCF+P will hit them clean. My god i love this move! Always keep it as an immediate option after the opponent blocks any of your specials or normals. 1) Use QCF+fierce just like ryus low roundhouse. Play footsies...if they miss a low sweep, then hit them. 2) Use the jab version if your going to cancel out a crouching short from far. 3) Use QCF+fierce after you block a special. It comes out so fast. I believe i blocked blankas ball and then hit him right after. For sure i could punish cammy after her specials! Standing forward (from far): Great normal attack. If they block it, It sets you up for the perfect distance to perform a safe QCF+fierce, or the QCF+roundhouse. The run...QCF or QCB: It is not a bad idea to low short then QCB. The blocked combo throws people off and they try to throw a special like a fireball at you. Just press the forward kick again and have fun comboing them. Low short, cancel into QCB, cancel into QCF, then end with forward or roundhouse. The run back then forth just seems to throw some people off... There's a little more strats (like supers) but please, everyone, post your in-game strats. I'm tired to write more now. Later (sigh, probably tomorrow), i'll post why i like C-groove best. Shes alot of fun. I can win if i get crazy and reckless flying all over the place and throwing out QCF+punch. But i think she gets destroyed by P-Groove. Running in may also become useless. There is a VERY simple counter if you see maki running towards you. Overall, lets have fun for now, but in a few months, i think we'll be having as hard a time winning with her as we did with guy. We should try to meet at SHGL friday night. I would love to see you guys play since i heard you can rack up wins with her. James, if you can go on friday, let's try to get Aric in on it too. That turtle bastard will love Sagat. Lates, Marco Posted by HitmanStriker on 08:28:2001 02:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by Edma LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!! One can only hope so... Actually, I haven't been to nickel since B5 so maybe they have it now... Wait! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!! So sad. BTW, you're Geoff's friend right? Why do you care about Nickel anyway? You're arcade seemed pretty good at getting the recent stuff. Boo... Yeah I'm a part of Team Mesa. And about Nickel....... Well I was supposed to show up to play you guys during last spring break but I got screwed by work since they wouldn't let me have the week off. Maybe sometime in the near future I will drop by. And I hope you're talking about Mesa Golfland for our arcade getting all the new stuff. Because that is the arcade that gets all the new stuff early. We'll have CvS2 pretty soon. Desert Sky is hella dope. Too many whiners. LOL. -Roy Posted by nex2me on 08:28:2001 07:10 PM: I posted this question before but maybe no one saw. Maki's 720 air super... Say you are trying to jump towards someone and you want to catch them with it. Would you continue the 720 motion from the jump position on the Joystick or would you start the 720 from some where else? NeX Posted by makstaks on 08:28:2001 07:45 PM: quote: Originally posted by nex2me I posted this question before but maybe no one saw. Maki's 720 air super... Say you are trying to jump towards someone and you want to catch them with it. Would you continue the 720 motion from the jump position on the Joystick or would you start the 720 from some where else? NeX I would start with either the position i jumped with or offensive crouch. It's really hard to do, but it's cool to show off with. But, you should try to go with the position that is easiest for you to start with. Another option is to use it after the QCB+forward kick. If you use C-groove, you'll have the air block in case you screw up and its easier to get the super out since she's in the air for so long. I suggest starting the motion with defense or defensive crouch. Personally, if i wanted to show off, i would go with the QCB+forward kick after the opponent performs a super or special that puts them high in the air. I think its easier since you can also start the 720 from any direction. Can someone give a specific range for this move? On the ground and in the air. I read somewhere that the air 720 has good range. What is the range for the HCB+punch also? Thanks, maks Posted by nex2me on 08:29:2001 12:30 PM: I know that the HCB+p has some good range. The fierce goes long while the MP goes alittle shorter. And I do not think that QP does not do anything...kind of like a fake out. Same with HCB+K off the wall. Nex Posted by Big Hollow on 09:13:2001 06:37 AM: I saw a combo on one of the videos at.....MMCafe, I think. Maki did the Jab, strong, fierce, then scooped up the opponent by the leg and tripped them. Anyone know how to do that? very good alternative to her roundhouse because it hits so high..... Thx in advance. Posted by Bronzefist on 09:18:2001 10:00 AM: Just bumping this thread because there's some good info in it. I'm just starting to learn CvS2 and this thread has helped my Maki game greatly. Thanks alot guys! I'll try to contribute if I find some useful things. Peace, Bronze Posted by taiji on 09:18:2001 11:02 AM: When I use Maki, I like using her in P-groove. Air parry into her command throws is so much fun to do. Her 720 super is also possible after a air parry which is very dangerous. Posted by elffzero on 09:18:2001 11:03 AM: first off.. Maki Rocks! secondly, what mode so you think adds to her playing style best? right now i'm having fun with A-mode CC's i'll throw out some stuff that i ran across for you people: jp,sp,fp,rk..over and over and over and over.. during a CC her final fight chain combos into itself anywhere on the screen because the last hit moves her forward, so if you start at point blank range you can do 5-7 repititions of this & finish with her rush super for a fancy looking CC in the corner after a qcf+k,k (any of them except lk of course) wait till she 'bounces' after the last hit and finish with an air 720 super. real fun, if your not in the corner finish with the qcfx2+p super. this is my first Maki CC tell me what you think. jp,sp,fp,rk x 4,qcf+fp,rk,qcf+rk,rk,720(air) does around 5500 damage. i've got a few more in the works and maybe i'll vid cap some if you guys want. oh and a question too.. Q:in Makis' CC's after you connect with her air throw(hcf+p) can you guys cancel into anything else on any of the hits? Posted by skisonic on 09:18:2001 06:30 PM: quote: jp,sp,fp,rk x 4,qcf+fp,rk,qcf+rk,rk,720(air) does around 5500 damage. interesting, thats a lot of work though,in the corner i do: (qcf+p)x n, st.mp, jump mp, 720 grab. only hard part there is the end, strong kinda launches them, j strong holds them in postition for the grab, it does about the same damage on equal ratio, about 720 hiya edma! i was the blondie from baltimore that stayed with Viscant at b5, your rogue is dope, maki seems good for you, good luck. Posted by Bronzefist on 09:18:2001 08:43 PM: Heh, well I suck at doing 720s and I really dont play A-groove so I can't give comments on it yet. Right now I'm trying to just focus on strategy with her. Some comments..... KKK -Like Edma said ealier, USE THIS MOVE!!! It drains some energy from you...so what? It is excellent vs deep crossups by your opponent. This is probably her second best anti-air move right behind d+FP. If its blocked then Maki bounces away from her opponent. There might be some moves that can hit her after the bouce, but I haven't seen any yet. d+RK -Has some pretty shoddy recovery. If your opponent has a charge special/super be especially wary if they block it. It seems to look the same as Guy's d+FK, only Maki's doesn't hit twice. d+SP -Seems to be the easiest poke for me to combo off of. Its got bad range though. However it does good pretty good priority. Right now I'm using alot of her qcb+K run. In fact I use it more than her qcf+k variation. I notice that people tend to turtle up when they see Maki away from them. They usually wait for her to jump towards them (you hit FK during run), or jump off the wall (hit RK during run then do a wall move). This defensive run can server a number of purposes including anit-air if you can anticipate an opponent jumping at you. i.e. qcb+k,FK,(jumping)FK/RK. You basically dash back and counter their jump-in with an air attack of your own. Her qcf+k run sometimes gets me into trouble. Someone with a high priority move can pretty much snuff any ender you chose. I frequently get Dragon Punched vs the Shotos The safest thing to do outta this run is cancel (hit SK) VERY early. Part of my problem is that I don't cancel the run until I get in my opponent's face. Thats a big NO-NO vs people with good reflexes. The recovery on her run cancel is decent but people can (and will) capitalize on it. Thats why I stress stopping the run a little earlier. You can also try canceling her forward run into the backwards version (qcb+k). Others have already mentioned doing this and it works pretty well if you can do it fast enough. For me its a problem cause my reflexes kinda suck and I don't cancel the run until its too late Her running speed is very fast so in order to do this succesfully you need to cancel early. For me, the best time to use her qcf+K run mixups are vs a rising opponent. If they dont have an anti-air then feel free to mix your suff up. It especially works well if they are in the corner. Vs. character that do have an anti air you must cancel your run so you can bait an attack from them. After that followup with her qcf+P (Great move) if they are far or your combo of choice if they are close. Be careful about doing the mixup right next to them. i.e. dont run up and hit FK/RK right in their face. If you do that you run a pretty big risk. If they block your FK low then they can get mad free shit on you. If they duck and you hit RK then you sometimes jump OVER them and land on the other side. Yeah we all know that the RK is suppossed to be an overhead but if you do it at point-blank range then Maki will jump over some ducking characters and get punished. This will NOT happen if they are in the corner, however Soooo give yourself enough distance when doing the FK/RK mixup. If they still block your FK at a distance then they have much less retaliation options. If they block your RK then you are completely safe. Unfortunately there is another counter to her qcf+k mixups; the opponent can jump straight up and avoid both of them. A god opponent will be able to jump and kick you on their way up if you try the RK ender and they can entirely avoid the FK ender by jumping as well. This is another place where her reverse run of run cancel will do you some good. You can reverse run to FK super jump or just run cancel to your own jumping attack (among other options). Finally (continuing with my anti-run trend) a good opponent will be able to see the FK/RK mixups after extend play vs her. If they just choose to block then this isn't necessarily (sp) a bad thing if you stick with her RK ender. I suggest that you do the RK ender a hell of alot more than her FK just because of the severe punishment you can receive if its blocked. Right now the people I play against will duck for a split second and then stand up. The duck is to prevent them from getting tripped and it seems to work pretty well. There are a couple of risky options you can use to counter this though. First, you can run for a litttle longer and wait till they stand before you hit FK. I know that I earlier advised against waiting till the last second to do the run mixup enders but it wokrs well against opponents who choose to remain blocking. Hopefully your extended run will throw them off and you'll get the free hit. You can also try stopping (SK) but its the more riskier choice because of the stop's recovery. Last but not least you can reverse run which is probably the safest alternative. In general Maki's run game has worked pretty nicely for me but the opponent can find ways to get around it. In the future we're most likely going to have to adopt a new strategy for her and I'd like to think about it now. I'm starting to think that she may evolve into a more defensive based character--countering jump-ins with d+FP, KKK, or running away. I never played Guy in the previous SF games (if fact I really didn't play much of any SF game save the original SF2) so using a character like this is gonna be a big learning experience for me. She can be a frustrating character to play against which is why I think that a defensive style could benefit her. Now I dont mean turtle up and counter jump-ins all day and never attack. You should stya on the offensive when you opponent is vunerable--while they're recovering from a slow move, rising, etc. Use that time to get your hits in and then qcb+k away into her various options. Its especially funny when you qcb+k and outrun their slow projectiles Ok thats my essay for today. I'm sure there are probably some spelling errors and shit though I have repeated alot of things already mentioned in this thread. The reason I did that is because many of the points really need to be stressed. I again thank you guys for a pretty good thread on a fun character. Any comments are welcome and encouraged. I'd especially like to see some strategy although combos/juggles don't hurt either^^. Peace, Bronze Posted by makstaks on 09:19:2001 12:02 AM: quote: Originally posted by Bronzefist Unfortunately there is another counter to her qcf+k mixups; the opponent can jump straight up and avoid both of them. A god opponent will be able to jump and kick you on their way up if you try the RK ender and they can entirely avoid the FK ender by jumping as well. This is another place where her reverse run of run cancel will do you some good. You can reverse run to FK super jump or just run cancel to your own jumping attack (among other options). In general Maki's run game has worked pretty nicely for me but the opponent can find ways to get around it. In the future we're most likely going to have to adopt a new strategy for her and I'd like to think about it now. I'm starting to think that she may evolve into a more defensive based character--countering jump-ins with d+FP, KKK, or running away. I never played Guy in the previous SF games (if fact I really didn't play much of any SF game save the original SF2) so using a character like this is gonna be a big learning experience for me. She can be a frustrating character to play against which is why I think that a defensive style could benefit her. Now I dont mean turtle up and counter jump-ins all day and never attack. You should stya on the offensive when you opponent is vunerable--while they're recovering from a slow move, rising, etc. Use that time to get your hits in and then qcb+k away into her various options. Its especially funny when you qcb+k and outrun their slow projectiles Ok thats my essay for today. I'm sure there are probably some spelling errors and shit though Peace, Bronze I didn't want to mention it in my earlier post, but yes, jumping straight up is the perfect and easiest counter to Maki's run game. I have used this against good maki players and their game just goes out the door. As i suggested before, use the QCF+p alot. I now have started to play Eagle, so i really haven't learned too much more about Maki... I think the best groove for her is N. The reason is for the forward "Counter Movement"...hold forward press WP+WK. Abuse this and the QCF+p. Just like GUy in A2, Maki really needs to knock the opponent off their feet and stay somewhat close. The counter movement will give you many opportunities to link into combos that do so. Maki also has problems when trapped in the corner, so counter movement works very well for that situation. I would probably use counter movement more then supers...her supers deal pretty weak damage. I would also use Power up more than super. If you think about it, an aggressive Maki will meter up pretty often. MORE QCF+P STRATEGY: QCF+HP after poking normals. Her good pokes are standing MK, HK or FP (from far). I mention the standing attacks because opponents tend to retaliate with a crouching attack that can easily be hit with QCF+P. At max distance, crouch WK cancel into QCF+WP, or MP. I can't remember which punch button is safest to use. After they block your QCF+P, look for super opportunity, QCF+K x2. ............. Generally, i play a somewhat close and aggressive maki. Here is a list of normals i use starting with the most used. 1) standing WP 2) crouch WK 3) crouch MK ; stand WK 4) stand MK 5) stand HK or HP from far 6) jumping MK 7) Jumping down+MP 8) crouch HP against jump-in opponent I don't use crouch MP. It has no range and seems to only be good for combos. Yes i use a lot of weak attacks, but i find that it gives me control of the game and also creates many opportunities to combo or counter with the QCF+P. I stay away and use the run away if i get bored with the opponent. I use the high low running game if my opponent isn't one of the better players around. Good to see this thread is picking up again. Oh yes, are there any characters that totally destroy Maki? Marco Posted by Night on 09:19:2001 01:55 AM: I've posted multiple times, but I guess once again I'll do it... In A-groove, to take full advantage of the CC damage system, it's best to do the first 10 hits the hardest hits you can deal out. Every hit after that will only do 100 dmg, a pixel amount. So doing her final fight chain to start up the CC will go up to 10 hits rather quickly, and you'll be dealing pixel damages at an ealier time. Her s. rh already makes her move forward, so starting a CC with anything decently ranged, say c. fwd, s. frc, or s. rh, then when it connects, keep pressing rh cuz she'll keep advancing forward, dealing rh damage. When they are backed into the corner, can still do it until time is almost out, then do qcf+p, cancel into qcfx2+p super. Almost always does dmg around the mid 6000s and is pretty simple. Or to be ultra stylish and go for the higher risk higher rewards (if you know you got the skill), end the CC with either a sweep or qcf+p, c. fierce to launch, then jump after em and do some air hits and end in her 720. Posted by Chris on 09:19:2001 02:18 AM: i was using maki yesterday, and i lost to a haomaru player. haomaru seems like a good anti-maki because of his crouching jab. its SO far range and has such good priority. stopped my runs so many times. his jumping fierce outprioritizes EVERYTHING maki has in air. i don't know about her air grabs because i didn't try it on him. anyone has any good strategies against haomaru for maki? Posted by Bronzefist on 09:19:2001 05:29 AM: quote: Originally posted by Chris i was using maki yesterday, and i lost to a haomaru player. haomaru seems like a good anti-maki because of his crouching jab. its SO far range and has such good priority. stopped my runs so many times. his jumping fierce outprioritizes EVERYTHING maki has in air. i don't know about her air grabs because i didn't try it on him. anyone has any good strategies against haomaru for maki? Heh, what a coincidence! Haomaru gives me problems as well. I know exactly what you mean about his jumping fierce. If thats the slash that is angled downward then the best I can tell you is to stay on ground and counter his jump attack with 3K. Her d+FP may work as well, but I'm not sure. I also know what you mean about his crouching jab...just so much range. If he is poking you outta your runs with it then try do the RK ender (i.e. qcf+K,RK). The RK should make you jump over the jab if you do it at the right distance. If he reacts to your runs by jumping staright up then start canceling the run really early and punish him as he falls. You may also try the 3K move immediately after you cancel. It just might be fast enough to still catch (still I'm not sure). But yeah, Haomaru is giving me shit. Especially if he plays defensively. Like if he waits for you and d+FP your jump-ins (or jumps at you with FP instead). Maki's d+SP in the air *might* beat him d+FP. Her attack has some pretty sick priority so you should try using that. In fact you could try some baiting games with it since when you execute it she drops pretty much striaght down. i.e. from across the screen super jump towards him and hit d+SP right before you reach him (outside his retaliation range). If he attacks and whiffs then punish him with QCF+P or whatever else works. This is not only a good strat vs Haomaru, but most others characters as well. I really wouldnt suggest her air grabs as his slashes seem to have great range. You'd be hard pressed to get an air grab off on him. How is the Haomaru player fighting against you? Is he remaining defensive or poking at you with jabs and jump-ins? If you can shed some more details then maybe I, or someone else can help you. Although I really dont have much more to add at the moment. Speaking of her (air) d+SP...have you guys noticed that you can combo off it even if it isn't a deep hit? I'm pretty sure that you can as I usually throw it out very early in my jump. Like I said, I never played Guy so I'm wondering the combo potential off an early hit from this move. Thats all. Peace, Bronze Posted by Big Hollow on 09:19:2001 06:08 AM: Her jumping MK sticks straight out. I usually us this as air-to-air. Against HaohGayru, try jumping straight up with MK, or with D+sp when he jumps in. Get fancy, run under him, stop, and 720 his ass!(it can be done). Input the commands right after you hit short. Heh heh..... Posted by Bronzefist on 09:21:2001 04:39 AM: Just bumping this thread before it gets lost I think that we should start developing some anti-character strats in this thread since we've covered most of her moves. In addition I'm also curious as too what grooves and ratios you guys are using her in. Right now I play her as a Ratio 1 or 2. I tend to favor Ratio 2 more because of the higher damage and endurance but I do player as ratio 1 from time to time. My favorite groove for her at the moment is K groove. I've been hearing alot about her and her A groove combos but I think she functions well in K also. Reason being is that she alreayd has the evasive moves which make up for the lack of rolling (i.e. her running move variations) and the rage mete really ups the damage that she can do. Seeing that I play her as a hit and run character this really benefits my game. It also gives me practices vs defensive opponents because alot of people turtle up when you're raged. My second favorite groove with her would have to be N. I love the "emergency rolls" that it offers. They can save any character's ass when needed. Also the power-up works good for adding extra damage to her moves. Thats all for now. Lets hear some anti-character strats! I'll try to help but I encourage other people to post as well (Lord knows I suck^^). Peace, Bronze Posted by Chris on 09:21:2001 08:36 AM: I play her on K groove ratio 1 with haomaru ratio 3. haomaru is one of the easiest characters to learn, i find. k groove rocks because JDing gives you back the life you lose in her KKK move, which i use a lot. plus rage mode rules! Posted by nex2me on 09:21:2001 12:25 PM: Big Hallow is right her jumping MK stops Haomaru's jumping FP Also you have to learn how to switch runs on the fly. It helps to set up a mental game in the other person's mind. Run at 'em then run the other way doing nothing. Then run at 'em stop short and then do nothing. You gotta mix it up. and once you get the opponet in the corner it really is a 50/50 thing wiht the run/throw. I cought a guy once 5 times stright because I did the run/HK/throw 2x, run/MK/throw 2x, and then the HK again. More to come... Posted by Post Man on 09:23:2001 07:42 AM: maki Don't know if its well known already but in C grove, Maki's level 2 kick super can be canceld into special moves. The best Thing I could come up with so far is into her qcf+mk,mk for a low attack. I mix this up with her level 3 kick super bc its an overhead when blocked. BTW, Just found this thread. I read as much as I could for now. I'll read more later tommorow. Posted by The_Pickler on 09:23:2001 06:36 PM: Maki sounds pretty crazy i can't wait till i get the game so i can practice with hershe sounds so fun. Posted by Post Man on 09:24:2001 05:20 PM: was doing some more experimenting last night, Looks like maki can 2 in 1 her air super and air grab off of jumping punches. Looks like it would be good against those parry games. don't know why, but she can't 2 in 1 off of a kick. Posted by Bronzefist on 09:25:2001 12:18 AM: quote: Originally posted by Post Man was doing some more experimenting last night, Looks like maki can 2 in 1 her air super and air grab off of jumping punches. Looks like it would be good against those parry games. don't know why, but she can't 2 in 1 off of a kick. If I'm reading this correctly, then this will make Maki sooooo much more powerful in air to air games. Do throws actaully combo off her punches? I.e. if I do jump fierce, hcf+P, will I grab then if the fierce is succesful? What happens if the fierce is blocked? Will the grab whiff? And most importantly..... does it workk off her jumping d+strong?!?! If it does than this shit will be TOO good, lol. Man that really got my hopes up. Somebody check this stuff out for us! Thanks, Bronze Posted by Bronzefist on 09:25:2001 12:30 AM: er...for some reason when I posted my reply above the thread didn't get bumped. So I'm doing this post in an attempt bring this back to the front page. -Bronze Posted by Post Man on 09:25:2001 05:19 PM: that air grab 2 in 1 thing, If they air block in c grove, you can't 2 in 1. also, you can't 2 in 1 off of a jumping d+MP. just jabs, strongs and fierces. I mentioned before aout the 2 in 1 working if they parry. it also works if they JD. BTW, Bronze, your from Philly? do you know Dave Spence? I'm from Toronto. I grew up playing Dave in SF when we were kids. About what grove I like, I like C grove and N grove. But I like N grove more. Much more! I like having lots of supers, mainly level ones at my disposal so I can go for super grabs. I like low jumps, like most people, but more importantly, I love running. I'm talking about her f,F run. I mix it up with her qcf+k with the f,F run, it adds so much to her mixups. thats my thoughts on her so far. Someone is jumping up to stop your run? just f,F into k+k if you think they are gonna jump. I mean you can even f,F(run) into a qcf+p. The mixups are endless. What ratio? I play either 4 (just to be different) or 2, when I put her with my Rolento. What I need to learn now is some of the more advanced SF tactics. If someone could tell me how to do a standing 720. there must be some info on it somewhere on this site. Sorry, I'm new here, I don't know my way around just yet. Also, I was thinking of copying some Zangief strats, like jumping attack,short kick,720. I was wondering if there are any good sources that could give me some ideas. For c mode, is it possible to do a 720 off of a dash? I've never been able to do it. But I've seen SF3S players here in T.O. do the standing 720 and dashing ones. Also, I was wondering if her dashing had any special properties, like going over low kicks? About running back and forth w/o stopping, you have to hit the wall or the opponent then input the quarter circle+k in the opposite direction at that time. As far as I know, you can't do a qcf+k,qcb+k in the middle of the screen w/o touching the wall or the opponent. (but you could do a f,F, qcb+k. and make it look like it with your f,F run) I also noticed something minor. when you qcb+k, hit the back wall, and do a qcb+HK, she does a quick dive kick just bairly off the wall which wont hit anyone. Just looks cool. Don't think counter moves (alpha counters or whatever you want to call them) are much of a problem for her. A jab, 2 in 1 into a k+k will beat any alpha counter. So, maki should have some alpha counter reversals. From my observations, they seem to reverse someones counter movement as well. at least their counter movement backwards. so, say I do a d+short kick and 2 in 1 a k+k. If they counter movement back off of my d+short, The k+k is garanteed. but the downside is if they go forward, it will wiff. The k+k is something I'm liking more and more as I get used to her. but I have concerns about its safety. Sometimes when I land I'm vulnerable to attacks and other times I'm safe. I guess its a matter of which character the opponent is using and the distance. Thanks to everyone so far. This thread in itself has alot of info and ideas for me to obsorb. Being a new character, shes gonna take quite some time. But Maki is awsome. Posted by Big Hollow on 09:25:2001 08:26 PM: Actually, you can switch run directions. Make sure you do a quarter circle in the other direction, and not a half circle. Don't know why that is, but that's how it is. It can be done. Posted by Bronzefist on 09:25:2001 11:18 PM: Post Man: Yes I'm from Philly but I don't think I know David Spence (at least not by name). Does he play at University Pinball? I probably don't know him because I never really played Capcom games at the arcade--I was a Tekken Tag/Tekken 4 player. I'm just really starting to re-learn the Capcom games after a very long time. Too bad you can't 2 in 1 off the jumping d+SP That would be soooo annoying if you could. I'm glad to hear that she can do it otherwise though. Its sounds like some really good stuff but I'll have to actually test it out in vs competition to be sure. This pretty much sounds like a capcom first; I don't remeber any other characters that could 2 in 1 into air grabs. The only other Capcom character with a command air grab (that I recall at the moment) was R.Mika with her hcb+K (or was hcf+K?). Thats a very nice find man. Big Hollow: Ahh maybe thats the reason why my run canceling has been so slow. I remeber always trying to hcb+K instead of qcb+K. I'll try your suggestion out next time I play. Thanks alot. Those N groove run mixups could possibly lead to some nice mind games. I never thought of using her SNK groove run as an alternative. Is the run animation the same as her qcf+K? Come to think of it, this could really mess someone up if you run at them while they're standing up. I'm pretty sure that you can block instantly out of the f,F run. So basically you can run up while they're recovering and bait some retaliation move from then. Since they don't see you cancel the run then their chance of attacking will be much greater. Now all you gotta do is hold B and block whatever they wanted to interupt you with. Example: you f,F run to a Shoto and hold B to block the second you reach their recovering character. They respond with a dragon punch (that you block). Now you can punish them with whatever's appropriate. Good shit Post Man, you got me thinking.... Thanks for the help guys. This is a very good thread (I'd say the best one so far on the new characters). Peace, Bronze Posted by Night on 09:26:2001 01:01 AM: The trick I use (may not work for everyone) when switching her Bushin dash directions is to TIGER KNEE them. So if I dash forward with qcf+k and I wanna dash backwards, I'll do qcb,ub+k then to dash forward again, qcf,uf+k. Since she's dashing, she won't jump and doing the tiger knee motion still counts as a qcf motion so she'll switch. Works like a charm for me! Posted by Edma on 09:26:2001 01:38 AM: Hey, cool. This thread is still going! Maki is way too much fun! To clear up the running stuff, here's what each thing does. QCF+kick -> SK, stop -> FK, low hit into grab if not blocked -> RK, overhead hop kick into grab if not blocked QCB+kick -> SK, stop -> FK, super jump forward -> RK, jump(super jump?) backward Off the wall stuff is as follows. QCB+SK, Drop straight down +FK, overhead jump kick at say about a steep angle +RK, overhead jump kick that goes farther out +JP, jump off the wall +SP, grab that is avoidable by crouching +FP, same grab but goes out farther I'm guessing most everybody who plays her either already knows this stuff but just to clear it up. Also, you can run back and forth whenever you want. You don't need to touch the wall or the person or tiger knee the motion or anything. Anyway, if anybody has some specific questions go ahead and ask. I'm trying to save tricks that I've come with her that seem to work pretty well for later use in tournaments though so I'd rather not type out whole strategies. Just like oh, "when is it good/bad to use her KK move?" or something like that. Posted by Post Man on 09:26:2001 02:10 AM: thanks for the clearification. I'm so excited. I was doing it in half circles to switch. Now I can do it both ways! BTW, here's a trick a friend taught me. off of the qcf+k~lk you can buffer a 720. just keep the motion going on the qcf and tap a punch after you hit the 2 kicks. Posted by Bronzefist on 09:29:2001 06:22 AM: Hrmmm Post Man I'm haing doubts about the grab 2 in 1 thing. Well first, are you saying that it works only off a parry or JD? I go to play CvS2 today and I only tried to 2 in 1 off a jumping opponent. I.e. I went to practice mode and set the dummy to "jump." I then proceeded to jump at it with punch and buffer the throw right after (hcf+P). I could not even get the throw to come out!! I dunno if I'm doing something wrong or I misunderstood what you posted. Do you mean that you can 2 in 1 on jumping opponents? I'm thinking that you meant this scenario: 1) You jump at them and punch while buffering the throw 2) They parry/JD your punch 3) Your buffered throw now comes out and grabs them. Is this what you were indicating in your posts? Tell me whats up (you or anyone else). Peace, Bronze Posted by Essex on 09:29:2001 03:34 PM: cool thread guy at first i though i was one of the few maki players but i guess i was wrong. just a few questions. her final fight chain (jp, mp, fp, rh) in the jchen vid he did a throw at the end of the combo insted of the rh does any one know how to do that. also has any one had sucess with qcf,lk ,lk 720? i have been doing as a mix up. as part of my pokes. c.lk c.mp slide or run rh cross up. what i am tryin to say that it gets to the point that you do so many diff things that the opponet is only going to block when he sees you running then stop right next to him 720 but the 720 dont come out very fast. any one have suggestions or can some one tell me this shit dont work so stop doing it! k thanks -Essex- Posted by Post Man on 09:30:2001 12:25 AM: Well, I don't think you can combo it on a hit. for some reason I thought you could. But, if the punch does hit, the grab animation should come out and just wiff. What I was mainly concerned with was using it as an anti JD and anti Parry option select. It works wonders against those. I also was looking at a hsf,u/f+p motion for an anti air grab. its like a super jump and air grab combined. Essex, The 720's have been coming out fast for me. I'm using the same mixups and they seem to be doing well. the key that made the difference for me was to keep going with the motion on the stick. I wouldn't just do a qcf then do the 720 motion. instead, Id do a 720 motion and hit the lk,lk at the appropriate times followed by the punch. Posted by Post Man on 09:30:2001 10:48 PM: lp,mp,hp,d+hp. thats the chain with the grab. thats what he did in the video. Guy had that in A3 in X-ism only. But Guy's was much better. the grab could be delayed, it threw them in the air for additioinal combos and, it didn't matter how acurate you did your chain, unlike maki. Guy's grab was done with d+hk instead of d+hp. With Maki, I noticed after you grond them, you can dash over them this chain into grab sets that up nicely. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I would have never thought she had that. Posted by Bronzefist on 10:01:2001 04:51 AM: Man, I just wanna add how ABUSABLE her qcf+P is... Today I got to play some more and I was haing a problem with characters who kept poking me on the ground with long range moves (i.e. Yamazaki standing roundhouse, Sakura standing roundhouse, Ken f+forward kick, etc.) Maki's normal moves pretty much suck when it comes to range. Her standing forward kick is good, but the list ends there.... Then I started to abuse her qcf+P! This move is very very very good. Good range, good recovery (can she even be punished?), decent chunck of damage and it knocks down. What can you not like about this move?!? My only question is if she can be hit after the opponent blocks it. I'm thinking that maybe she can be hit after the fierce punch version, but the strong and jab look like they recover very quickly. This move is pretty important in controlling her ground game. Her normals really do suck if your opponent starts a poking war on you. An opponent good at poking can even shut down you running game if you're not careful. I hate trying to jump over their pokes because Maki's jump is too high and has too much hang time for my liking. Have any of you played against people who rely on ground poking and footsie games? How does your Maki deal with them? Thanks, Bronze Posted by Edma on 10:02:2001 03:12 AM: Bronzefist: Well, if you look at Maki's normals she actually has some really good ones beside standing forward. I know I mentioned that as IMO her best normal but now I don't really think it is by that much. Her far standing fierce and strong and her jab and short are all really good pokes/pressure attacks. And keep in mind that her standing jab hits all crouchers and is cancelable. And her sweep and crouching forward kick are good pokes too although I do suppose her sweep is a little slow to recover but most sweeps are anyway. So her's is decent enough. But if someone is just plain poking the crap out of you somehow you do have a variety of options. Rolling, jumping to the wall plus followup, KKK(not recommended too often), etc... Just block a few pokes and stay calm and figure out which option seems best. Posted by Bronzefist on 10:03:2001 05:56 AM: quote: Originally posted by Edma Bronzefist: Well, if you look at Maki's normals she actually has some really good ones beside standing forward. I know I mentioned that as IMO her best normal but now I don't really think it is by that much. Her far standing fierce and strong and her jab and short are all really good pokes/pressure attacks. And keep in mind that her standing jab hits all crouchers and is cancelable. And her sweep and crouching forward kick are good pokes too although I do suppose her sweep is a little slow to recover but most sweeps are anyway. So her's is decent enough. But if someone is just plain poking the crap out of you somehow you do have a variety of options. Rolling, jumping to the wall plus followup, KKK(not recommended too often), etc... Just block a few pokes and stay calm and figure out which option seems best. Thanks for the help. The problem I have with the poking is that both me and my opponent are going at it on the ground and the first person to jump in will eat some sort of anit-air (i.e. if he jumps I use d+fierce; if I jump he use DP, d+fierce, etc.). So I want to avoid any type of jumping--unless anyone else has some suggestions. Her d+strong has great priority but I find that some anti-airs still beat it or trade hits with it which is not really a good thing cause it doesn't do that much damage. I'm pretty sure that a good amount of characters can crouch under her standing jab. Maybe the smaller ones can? I'll double check to be sure... I honestly haven't tried using her crouching forward as a poke yet. I'll admit that I was alittle mad that it couldn't cancel into her qcf+P but I guess it would be too good then :P. Soo I use her crouching short into qcf+P which is a pretty decent tick. But I'll work with her crouching forward because it does have some decent range. I dunno what to say about her standing fierce. Right now I really don't like it too much because it seems kinda slow (to me). The range is good. But I think people can duck it (either that or her standing strong, if I recall correctly)? Thanks for you suggestions. I'm still thinking that her standing forward and qcf+P are her best pokes, but I'll definitely try out what you said. Also, her run (from the SNK grooves) works great! Its so easy to keep on pressure and confusion with it. You can cancel it to whatever you want which can throw off opponents who are used to her basic qcf+K mixups. I dunno which is better (btw her SNK run or her CAP dash) because I honestly haven't been using the dash much. Right now I'd say the run is better but I know the dash has some good options as well. I'll experiment with both next time I get to play. Peace, Bronze Posted by Bronzefist on 10:07:2001 01:31 PM: Just a question....have any of you found a use for her kick super? Its seems pretty shitty to me. Its got terrible start-up and I don't think you can buffer it off an attack. Its nice damage and all but can it be combo'd? I'm pretty sure that it goes over low fireballs, which is a plus, but I really don't see any other reason to use it. Oh yeah the chip damage is nice to, but it has horrid recovery How the hell do I use this thing? Ah well... Peace, Bronze Posted by FFRonin on 10:07:2001 03:48 PM: quote: Originally posted by Bronzefist Just a question....have any of you found a use for her kick super? Its seems pretty shitty to me. Its got terrible start-up and I don't think you can buffer it off an attack. Its nice damage and all but can it be combo'd? I'm pretty sure that it goes over low fireballs, which is a plus, but I really don't see any other reason to use it. Oh yeah the chip damage is nice to, but it has horrid recovery How the hell do I use this thing? Ah well... Peace, Bronze that counters low hitting attacks, that's your best option. if you anticipate a poke use it. Posted by Bastion on 10:07:2001 06:26 PM: quote: Originally posted by Bronzefist Just a question....have any of you found a use for her kick super? Its seems pretty shitty to me. Its got terrible start-up and I don't think you can buffer it off an attack. Its nice damage and all but can it be combo'd? I'm pretty sure that it goes over low fireballs, which is a plus, but I really don't see any other reason to use it. Oh yeah the chip damage is nice to, but it has horrid recovery How the hell do I use this thing? Ah well... Peace, Bronze Her level 3 kick super can be comboed off her c.fk for nine hits. And this move has an incredible amount of invinciblity at the begining. Posted by Chris on 10:07:2001 11:22 PM: It is a good anti-air. if your opponent is comming in at a 45 degree angle, that is. Posted by HaoGui on 10:08:2001 03:49 PM: quote: Originally posted by Bronzefist Just a question....have any of you found a use for her kick super? Its seems pretty shitty to me. Its got terrible start-up and I don't think you can buffer it off an attack. Its nice damage and all but can it be combo'd? I'm pretty sure that it goes over low fireballs, which is a plus, but I really don't see any other reason to use it. Oh yeah the chip damage is nice to, but it has horrid recovery How the hell do I use this thing? Ah well... Peace, Bronze The Level 3 I know will go through fireballs, you can also cancel standing fierce to the kick super from far away. Posted by Jason on 10:08:2001 08:59 PM: as long as you hit kick again right after the super flash ends, I'm pretty sure that all 3 levels of the super kick combo off a c.mk. and tagging on a run->overhead grab after the level 2 one looks neat. Posted by FatCat on 10:15:2001 06:42 AM: Bronzefist, just give it up man! Or I'll calculate pi while you keep shining shyt. Posted by Bronzefist on 10:15:2001 10:15 PM: quote: Originally posted by FatCat Bronzefist, just give it up man! Or I'll calculate pi while you keep shining shyt. WWWHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAATTTT? BULLSHIT!!! Get outta here you shoto scrub!!! Also, thx for the help with the kick super guys! I'm starting to use her 720 super a little more and I like the results. I'm mostly buffering it after jumps and rolls. I haven't tried it that much after her run cancel. Thanks -Bronze Posted by Bronzefist on 10:19:2001 08:33 PM: Ok this may sound a little odd but... Is it just me or does Maki have even MORE options when she's in a corner. She can escape corner traps more easily than other characters (with her qcb+jab on the wall) and she can also launch two good attakcs from the wall as well: her qcb+FK/RK dive kick and her qcb+SP/FP dive grab. Honeslty, I'm much more inclined to use her dive kick because it has absolutely SICK priority. If the opponent doesn't block it, then he gets knocked down as well and you're free to do whatever you wish. The recovery on this move looks to be pretty good (on block). I haven't been punished for it yet, but then again I haven't been looking in practice mode for fats moves that can it her after it. Can anyone help here? If it is safe on block then just imagine the possibilities afterwards. It would be cool if you could buffer in one of her lvl 3 supers afterwards because al of them are invincible in the initial frames. The super could possibly blow through whatever counter attack your opponent had planned. Her dive grab is the alternative to her dive kick and its a pretty decent mix-up, IMHO. Of course, don't try to rely on it because good player WILL recognize the dive grab and punish you accordingly. So basically use the dive kick to do most of your dirty work and switch to the grab on occasion. Also, some of you may know this already, but you don't need to wait until Maki is at the peak of her jump to do the wall dive kick/grab. You can do either move the second she leaves the ground and touches the wall. Practice it by doing her qcb+k reverse run and then hit RK when she's ran into the corner. After hitting RK immediately do qcb+FK/RK. She will do a low-angle dive kick which looks like she barely left the ground. I use this alot when I'm backed into the corner and it works soooo good. Your opponent will have very little time to react to the kick and right now it seems to be safe if blocked (as I mentioned earlier). The moral of this story is USE HER DIVE KICK. Don't be afraid of getting yourself in a corner because Maki has more than enough to fight her way out. Anyone else with input? Also (and more immportantly) is her dive kick really safe if blocked? Or does it depend on distance (i.e. they get a free attack if they block it and you land next to them)? Peace, Bronze Posted by Bronzefist on 11:10:2001 06:51 PM: Hehe, just giving this thread the occasional *bump* Unfortunately, I still think all her normals (with a few exceptions) are pretty much shit. I guess its just my style of play that keeps me from understanding how to use her short-range normals. Most of the other characters I play have very good normals (M.Bison, Rolento, Vice, Eagle, Joe), but Maki seems to fall short. Also, I'm having an increasingly difficult time winning with her these days. All that qcf+K running stuff is old and easily beatable. Sure I may use the the qck+K stuff maybe once or twice a round, but thats pretty much it. Most of the time I'm on the ground combating jump-ins or poking with standing forward kick. Damn I really wish her crouching forward kick would buffer into special moves. I know that it buffers into supers, but it would make her SO much better if you could buffer it into somtehing like her qcf+P. Thats all I got to say. Just giving this thread a bump. Posted by Night on 11:10:2001 07:17 PM: For me (haven't used her in a while though), her s. fierce and s. rh are probably her best ground normals, and c. fwd is good poke, although unfortunately it doesn't cancel. Her jump-ins are pretty decent at least. Close s. fierce cancelled into qcf+p is always good and does the same dmg as her jab,strong,fierce,d+fierce chain. Mainly her her qcf+p since it's relatively safe when blocked, has good priority, but if it whiffs, big trouble. Posted by Bronzefist on 11:11:2001 09:22 PM: Yeah I forgot to mention her standing RK. Even though it hits high its got pretty good range; Maki takes a nice step forward before doing it. I've also read that a 720 buffer works well after it whiffs on a ducking opponent (I think it was mentioned in this thread earlier). I don't know how effective that buffer would be but I imagine that its worth trying a few times. Her close standinf fierce whiffs over crouching opponents as well. Damn its like half of her normals whiff over crouching opponents. So far I know: Standing RK, Close Standing RK, Close Standing FP, Standing Jab all whiff. That shit sucks. Still a fun character though Peace, Bronze Posted by FINAL SHOWDOWN on 11:12:2001 03:15 AM: Yeah i also have trouble winning with maki these days. I had her pretty good for awhile but they eventualy catch on. And jumping straight up will tottaly fuck up her running game. If it wasn't for kk twirly move(whitch i must say is awsome) she'd be pretty down there. Posted by Post Man on 11:25:2001 04:11 PM: Still here and still learning to play Maki. I found an interesting cancel. It was posted before that you could do a qcb+k,qcb+hk beside the back wall for a dive kick off the base of the back wall. Well, I experimented with hitting two buttons on the last qcb. If you do a qcb+k,qcb+HK+P beside the back wall she does the punch wall moves off of the base of the wall. The Strong and Fierce off the wall grab moves don't connect but look like little rolls of the wall. The jab version is my favourite. (qcb+k,qcb+HK+LP) Its like rolento's scooter jump towards the opponent. Actualy my Maki is comming along nicely. My main strat is to use the wall. I don't try and turtle in the corner but rather use the wall to create as many opportunities as I can. I'll do stuff like medium kick dive off the back wall 2 times in a row. After I do that, my opponent will not jump for a few seconds. then I do stuff depending on what distance they are at.( if I expect a fireball I'll qcf+k,MK under it)I fake in and out back to the wall. stuff like run in, stop and qcf+P. Then at times I move in and out then jump over and switch sides. Thats just a general idea of how I'm thinking maki needs to be played. She's got so many moves and options the closer she is to the wall. But still, you got to watch out that you don't get trapped. still though, I haven't had this problem yet. One thing I don't like about maki is her supers (level 1). I used to think her level ones were great but I've come to the conclusion that I'm only getting away with them bc my opponents don't know her animation. I'm talking mainly about her 720. Its like the raging deamon. they can jump back if they see it. Just no one pays attention. The only good thing about it is it has invinciblity frame(s) at the begining. but its hard to run up and grab someone who knows her animation. The level 1 kick super sucks if blocked. they get a free hit. I have to get better at her level 3 supers. I've been using her on N grove. But I still use the level ones. Just bc I can get away with it. I know I'm developing some bad habbits using it though. One last tactic, against big characters (i.e. Zangeif) up close you can c.LK, 2in1, qcf+K,HK for a cross up. though its a little hard and risky to get so close to Zangief. Is anyone else still working on Maki? Posted by FINAL SHOWDOWN on 11:25:2001 04:22 PM: I still use maki a bit....but she has definitly gone down.....I'm telling ya when someone just jump straight up in the match it just realy hurts maki....I know it sounds simple but it can really hurry you. People just don't fall for her runing games anymore....though the kk move still kicks ass. Posted by Bastion on 11:25:2001 07:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by FINAL SHOWDOWN I still use maki a bit....but she has definitly gone down.....I'm telling ya when someone just jump straight up in the match it just realy hurts maki....I know it sounds simple but it can really hurry you. People just don't fall for her runing games anymore....though the kk move still kicks ass. My opponent started jumping straight up everytime I ran forward, it hurt a little. So I used the run to bait my opponent into jumping straight up, just run forward then stop. You'll be in front of them and able to do what ever you want to them. Posted by Ben-Ra on 11:26:2001 08:30 PM: Hey all, started playing Maki like a week ago. Very cool, she has such a unique style that it takes a lot of work, but it's rewarding. One thing I've been working on is run options. I know some of this is already posted, I apologize in a advance. I think Maki works best in a run groove, simply because her run and qcf+k look exactly the same. Smart opp.s might start listening for the sound, but I still think it's a viable idea. From qcf+k lk, stop mk, low hk, overhead qcb+k, reverse run(into reverse options) From Run any normal(probably s.hp or c.mk/hk) qcf+p(safe) any super qcf+k, see above qcb+k jump/short jump (crossup?) Roll/Dodge(if able) ETC...she really has insane mixups from that. I know a lot of you have mentioned people wising up to her run tricks, but with all these options you should have something for every situation. Been thinking she might be best in N since she can run and roll... So what do you all think? Posted by MindGeyser on 11:27:2001 01:22 AM: A moderate problem for Maki Hi everyone, I'm new here, and also just started using Maki. I find her quite fun and refreshing; I use Ken alot, and I love the change of pace. However, she has a pretty bad matchup, and that's versus Geese Howard. You see, all of Maki's non-throw specials (ie, everything but qcb+p off of the wall and hcf+p in the air) can be countered high. All he has to do is sit there and counter high when you run and you've lost unless you do your share of mix-ups. Even qcf+k, mk which can only be blocked low, still can be easily countered high , so you have to put in a little overtime to beat a good Geese Howard. Posted by Ben-Ra on 11:27:2001 01:29 AM: That's when you stop and hit him with a normal attack or qcf+p. The timing on the counter is pretty severe so it shouldn't be too hard. Plus, you could just delay it a little longer than normal and there would be no problem...just vary the timing and you don't have to fear counters. Posted by Bronzefist on 11:27:2001 03:58 AM: MindGeyser: I dont really play against other Geese players, but I do use him so I may be bale to help you out a little. 1st...are you being predictable? That is, are you doing some attacking pattern very often? This may be the reason why Geese is countering you so much. One of the best things to do against a counter-happy Geese is walking up (or jumping in) and throwing him. Its easier said than done, but it should work if you dont abuse it. While Geese is in his counter animation he is completely open to throws. Also he cannot break any throw while he is in the animation, even if he anticipates it. 2nd...it sounds like you are using her specials alot (judging from your post). IMHO the most useful special for her is her qcf+P. I know her others have their uses, but this one is what you should be relying(sp) on the most. Use this special for chip damage, closing small distances and guard breaking. If the Geese player is countering this then use a normal move of her's with decent range (standing forward kick or standing fierce punch come to mind). Also try to chain your specials off her normal moves so Geese wo'tn have the chance to counter them. i.e. you can do: d+SK, qcf+P. Or d+SP, qcf+P. Geese cannot counter you in between these chains. I suggest playing Maki in a Groove with shortjumps. This can really mess with a Geese player because the jumps are very brief. Unless the player anticipates your jump then you should be o.k. Ben-Ra: I think I recognize your name from various Tekken messageboards. Am I correct? You been playing T4 much? Everybody else Well, I havent played in a while, but I do have some random comments/thoughts to make. This'll be pretty unorganized: 1) Maki seems to be best in N-groove (at least for me). The short jump with d+SP is hella annoying. So much priority and much less hang time when compared to her normal d+SP in the air. In fact, Maki with short jump is just great overall. You don't have to worry about her long jumps which leave your opponent so much time to counter you. I was playing Maki in K-groove before but I think I'll just stick with N groove for her. Although I still think she can be good in K, N groove gives her those extra movement bonuses that I'm beggining to like. Also, her lvl3 supers are pretty bad, IMHO. There is just so much recovery if they are blocked Maki's got much less recovery on her lvl 1 supers. Overall though her supers just suck... 2) The d+SP (air) is mega parry bait. Damn I had this move parried so many times the last time I played. Its a great move and all but it slows down Maki's jumping speed and gives PLENTY of time to a P-Groover. You've been warned. 3) I'm running (qcf+K) with her less and less. I know I've been saying it in my posts, but as time progresses I find myself only running once or twice around. This includes qcf+K AND qcb+K. The last time I played her I made heavy use of her far standing fierce, standing forward and d+fierce (for anti-air). I did pretty decently. It was a much better result for me since I stopped running around like a madman. The 3K kick move is still ok, but I'm starting to get hit out of it by alot of moves. 3K is losing to alot of shit when I'm getting up from the ground. It used to be my "get off me" move on wake-up but damn I'm getting killed by well-timed cross-ups now. 4) I'm having hella difficulty with Chun Li's jumping short. Chun just seems to have MUCH more air to air priority than Maki and I'm sometimes at a loss with ideas. Chun's jumping short beats damn near EVERYTHING Maki throws at her: 3K, d+fierce, and air move, etc. Maki's d+fierce only works at the correct distance; if Chun jumps while close to you then then she'll jump over you and cross you up with the short. Even the 3K move gets beat in this situation. My problem is not just with Chun Li though; its with pretty much all the high jumpers with good cross-ups. I really dont know a way to keep them out of the air. Any suggestions? 5) I probably land her 720 super more than her others. Given my horrendus 720 execution skills, that isnt saying much. Thats all me gots ta say. Peace, Bronze Posted by Ben-Ra on 11:27:2001 08:06 PM: Yeah, I used to play Tekken a lot, but have given it up...T4 just doesn't do it for me... About the high jumping short/crossup:are you getting crossed after a knockdown, or just anytime? Maybe you could run under them, or roll if you're N. On wakeup...umm...just block it;> If 3K and c.hp doesn't work I'm not sure what to suggest... Posted by MindGeyser on 11:29:2001 01:13 AM: Heh heh heh... Bronze fist, Ben-Ra, thanks. I switched from C to P groove, and stabbed him with mk all day long. He didn't counter often, he just knew which counter to use if he wanted to use a counter. When it came down to the wire, and if I was going to use a special (especially from a distance in which would be harder to punish from, ie, further away), he didn't have to guess the height of the move. He almost didn't have to guess if I was doing a special, because if I were to do a special from a safe(r) distance, he saw what was comming and countered. This time, however, I smoked the hell out of him. I think I fazed him pretty bad when I parried all of his level 3 AA-Lightning Cage (Raging Storm) , but having your advice certainly helped. Posted by Bronzefist on 11:29:2001 02:11 AM: quote: Originally posted by Ben-Ra Yeah, I used to play Tekken a lot, but have given it up...T4 just doesn't do it for me... About the high jumping short/crossup:are you getting crossed after a knockdown, or just anytime? Maybe you could run under them, or roll if you're N. On wakeup...umm...just block it;> If 3K and c.hp doesn't work I'm not sure what to suggest... I'm mostly getting crossed up after a knockdown. I tried to use her 3K but either my timing was off or the move just gets out-prioritized by Chun's jumping SK in that situation. I even find it hard to walk under Chun when I know her cross-up is coming. I swear I walk under her but I still get caught by the SK. I never tried running under her though. Maybe that will work, but it would take some serious anticipation. MindGeyser: Glad to be of help Peace, Bronze Posted by Ben-Ra on 11:29:2001 08:20 PM: Oh, yeah: What's nice is that while normal running will stop if you run under someone once you get to the other side, qcf+k will keep going at least half screen away, depending on where you started the run. Here's where it gets tricky. After running under with qcf+k, you can reverse the run, but you'll have qcb+k from your current position, which means you do the qc the same direction you did the initial run. The new run of course will send you running at the opponent, most likely. However, the qcb+k options apply, except that they're in reverse...it gets pretty crazy from there... Not too useful 98% of the time, but hey... Posted by Mung714 on 11:29:2001 11:48 PM: this thread proves the top tier stupididty of the people on this board I see James Chen in frikin players guides, he has to be good lol and anyways the way edna explains her and stuff, she seems very good SO WHY THE HELL DO PEOPLE CONSIDER HER THE WORST practically because they dont try heres ken you ass Posted by Mung714 on 11:29:2001 11:50 PM: quote: Originally posted by FatCat Bronzefist, just give it up man! Or I'll calculate pi while you keep shining shyt. OMG FATCAT!!! YOUR AVATAR REMINDS ME OF MY CHILDHOOOD thank you now look at ken Posted by CliffDog on 11:29:2001 11:54 PM: I've browsed through here and I don't see much on her lp mp hp hk chain...the one that guy had (and coudl pretty much kill instantly in alpha 3 if you were in corner or he had meter) I know it's not as good as Guy's, but how useful is the thing overall? Do you guys use it? I try it but it seems to whiff a lot towards the end, shoudl I just practice it more? Posted by Bronzefist on 11:30:2001 12:35 AM: Ben Ra: Yeah I've had that accidental reverse run sitaution happen to me MANY times. Unfortunately the results are never in my favor Mung714: Well I really can give my opinion on her tier ranking because there are many characters that I honeslty don't know shit about. Maki does have her weaknesses though, and it takes HELLA work to win with her. The only time I actually win with her is when I play her non-stop for 10 or more games. If I ever take a break from playing her its seems like my game deteriorates and my opponents get much better as well. I don't think I would call her the absolutely worst character in the game; I think she has more untapped potential than that. But she does take alot of work and alot of dedication, especially when people wise up to her runnning shit. CliffDog: Honeslty that string has been too inconsistent for my liking. Like you mentioned, it whiffs an awful lot and I've pretty much removed it from my game. If something groundbreaking comes up then I may start to use it again, but for now its up on the shelf. Peace, Bronze Posted by Ben-Ra on 11:30:2001 09:11 PM: One thing about Maki that's tough is that her style is so crazy, you have to master a lot of shit if you want to get the most out of her. My personal issue:720s, I suck at them. But you really need it for her...of course, you also need great movement control, both runs and jumps(despite what some may say, I think Maki can and should jump. Although I do play in K groove;> ) And then you need great spacing/poking...which is to say, she kind of sucks at poking, which makes being as good as possible really vital. Hmmm...have I just discovered that Maki sucks? j/k Anyway, the point of my rant is that you have to utilize every tool she's got if you want to win with her, as opposed to some characters(coughSagatcough) who can rely on just a few things and hurt people badly...Maki does have a lot of shit, though, and that's what I like about her. Posted by AzN_Skater on 12:04:2001 06:56 AM: this thread is too good to go down the gutter *bump* Anyway, I started playing Maki a week ago (yah, a tad late, but whatever), and i've been having tons of success with her. Opposite to what everyone is say, i hardly ever use her qcf+p. I usually punish whiffed stuff with the bushin combo. And i abuse the hell out of running back. I mix up running back roundhouse and running back foward kick. and when i use qcb+k, fk, i'll stick out a roundhouse on the way up and if they jump, they get nailed. If they don't jump and try to counter with a 1 button anti air, i land behind them and 720. If they DP, i pray to god i trade hits Nothing much i can add yet. Foward run games are slowly going down. I usually just run foward and bait DP's and such. Posted by CliffDog on 12:04:2001 06:57 PM: you should punish with the c.mp qcf+hp... it has the same range as the bushin combo and does more damage, plus it starts low, which is a plus, and it's easier to do (not that the bushin chain is hard, but this is very easy). the onl advantage the bushin chain has is (I think) 100% safe...the qcf+hp ender is HARD to punish if blocked (it looks easy to punish but it's not, I've tried), but it IS possible. However, that shoudln't matter for a "punisher" combo because it's not going to get blocked. BTW, ending with qcf+lp STILL does more damage (I think) than the bushin chain and it IS 100% safe. I'm also finding that the bushin chain is pretty useless, though I still use it sometimes from a connected d+mp from the air. Posted by AzN_Skater on 12:04:2001 07:39 PM: hrm... maybe i'll try using the bushin chain less and the c.mp, qcf+p more often. Thx Posted by Bronzefist on 12:12:2001 07:27 AM: Heh, d+SP, qcf+P is like my ONLY Maki combo. Damn shame huh? I dont really have anything else to add. So this thread'll just take another *bump* Peace, Bronze Posted by Ironforce on 12:13:2001 05:16 PM: I took a look, and thanks to the bump I noticed this page, I was like, finally, so I'm not alone. EVERYONE I KNOW swears maki, and kyosuke are garbage. Kyos I won't get into, but Maki has potential. I've learned all of her run/reverse run variations, and yes, they're useful, but very predictable The problem I have with Maki, what I usually look for in most characters, is I can't find a string of moves that I can reliably put people down with. Say Sagat for example, I can stop worrying about anti air for obvious reasons, and his pokes and tiger variations give him sweet zoning. If I'm up close and trying to get out poked, I know I can count on c.short, c. strong, c.fierce,(string of pokes, not combo ) because people always try to interrupt and get stuffed, and eat the stun damage. After a couple of these I usually get a dizzy and the match is over. Maki on the other hand is more predictable then I'd like her to be. Say the match starts, and I run back. I'm against a Ryu. If he hadokens, yeah I could mk during the reverse and jump in, but a dp will follow. If I run back in after the reverse and he jumps, then I'm not where I want to be, and have to run back out again. Maki I think primarily needs to keep people on the floor, and once they get their opponent to realize this, she can begin her ground game. But anything in a forward run can get stuffed by forward pokes and dps, I'm not gonna sit there and block trying to guess what I should do. I'd jab dp you as soon as you were in range, and if it whiffed or you blocked, it'd serve it's purpose, and I could s. mk, c.fp you to death, whether you caught me after the whiff or not. Hell if you try to time a stop during the run, unless you have killer reflexes I doubt you'd stop close enough to hit me after the Jab TU, and I'd do a RK Tiger knee right after and continue zoning. I guess what I'm trying to say is, when I play Maki, I see very little gain, despite all the effort, so I find it more of a likenes of using dan and being at a distinct disadvantage, because while maki is fun, I just don't know how to "mix it up" without getting stuffed. I see maki with serious potential, if I could only find out what her gameplan relied on. I saw someone in another post warning against a runaway maki, and I was hopin I could pick up some strats, so if there are any maki's out there with a solid game don't be afraid to share your strats, cos we could all not only benefit but come up with new strats from it. Sure she has nice moves for certain situations, but near everyone has a owing AA, or an abuseable ground move. The thing is people can base their game around it. I don't know how maki can base it around the runs that are so easy to predict (to me anyway). I'm probably not makin any sense, I just got discouraged out of pickin Maki. If anyone could let me know actually gameplan strategies (not useful moves separately, but setups) who would like to share I'd appreciate it, otherwise I'm stickin to my guns for now. She just doesn't have what it takes to be reliable even though she's hella fun Late Posted by FINAL SHOWDOWN on 02:22:2002 06:13 AM: i just noticed something strange...maybe its old but i dunno....did you know you can do qcb+lp forever off the wall??...its gotta be fast......REAL fast but you can do it....ive gotten a good 5 sec with it before.....you can use it to bait people into jumping to attack you and then land and hit them with say a KK move....just jump off the wall then press qcb+lp as fast as you can you stick to the wall...i dunno i thought it was pretty instresting. I remember i noticed something else strange but i forgot what it was...maybe all remember....i no it was something tricky....i got killed when i tried it but i remember it could be good....hmmm...it will come to me maybe and all post it. Posted by Mummy-B on 02:22:2002 05:12 PM: I don't know if this has been posted before, but I put it in another Maki thread asking for practical uses for the level 3 kick super. Now, this is really hard, and I actually haven't got it down with consistency yet. cross up mk -> (Final Fight Chain) stand lp -> mp -> fp -> fk XX Level 3 kick super (and then you mash kick like hell to make it come out fast enough to combo) This is possible, and I practiced first by just doing far stand fk XX Level 3 kick super and that definately works. For some reason, when I do the whole chain, it's really damn hard to pull it off. But damn it takes off a shitload of life when you do. Posted by Ben-Ra on 02:23:2002 02:27 AM: Would the punch super also work? Too lazy to check right now so I'll just ask. Posted by Gojira on 03:08:2002 11:18 AM: Ooh, had to bump this thread because I'm learning Maki as an anti-character (she's really good against certain top tiers, believe it or not). Here are some various things I notice about Maki. Her level 1 qcf,qcf + P super has good priority for a level 1 super. Not abusable but toss it out to stuff attacks once in a while and see what happens. I'm pretty sure the startup is invincible against some low attacks. Forward dash sucks, I never use it. Moves that can be done out of forward dash are good but get ruined by the fact you can see the dash coming and jump up. So, my basic strategy is never to use the dash, only the dash's moves. I do this by cancelling the dash instantly, which can be done with qcf+K~K. So if I want to do the dash overhead, I do qcf+FW~RH and if I want to do a dash sweep I do qcf+RH~FW. Short jump Maki, d+Str. Wow. I mix this up between her cr. RH and instant running overhead. Good pressure against low-gauged opponents. Cr. Fierce is NOT good. It has no priority at all, and makes for lousy anti-air. Her roll is good... medium range, low recovery. Against most moves it's easy to use this move to get in. Just don't use it too much or you'll fail basic psychology. Other stuff I could say is already covered in the earlier half of this thread. Posted by Kechu on 03:08:2002 06:13 PM: Hi guys I new to this thread. I'm a regular Maki user. At first, I sucked with her because I was too predictable but now she is my best character. I play in P groove and boost her to 2 pts. Like one of you said she is a great overall anti-top-tier character. So far I have not got any serious difficulty playing against Sagat, Blanka, Vega, Bison and Cammy. I tend to use her s.MK as a poke. If you don't know this kick has good range. It out-prioritises Blanka's d.HP period. Her c.HP is just too good as an anti-air. This c.HP kills A/C-groovers cos of the inability of the low jump. When I jump I use the HP early. Most of the time it will out-prioritise other normal moves and sometimes (rarely) trade with 'uppercut' moves. Her punch super is crap...full stop. It has no vacuum effect and has poor range. I land the kick super after my low parries. Usually I can buffer it from c.MK, s.MK or s.HP. It is her best super cos it does insane damage. The 720 super in the air is TOO HARD to land so I'm gonna bother again. Therefore the air 720 super is useless IMO. My biggest interest with Maki is to learn traps leading to a ground 720 super. There's few traps I know how to land it but the more the better ^_^ Do you guys know any good ones? PS: I can't believe I missed this exxxxxcellent thread! Posted by Orochi Pickle on 03:08:2002 07:58 PM: Traps to use with her throw super they are generally the basic type. with her though she has many things that she can use some which are hard and some im just thinking of right at this moment but haven't really used but know would work if you are fast enough. jump high or low down+mp>720+p this one i just started using it didn't really dawn on me t use it but it is actually pretty good when you think of it. the (d+mp) makes her fall more in a downward motion since her jump is so high and far which will throw people off, the d.mp(air) has good priority when you hit or if you don't then you don't have to be super fast to do the 720 since it has so slow animation then they get hit if they don't jump. qcf+wk,wk>720+p I generally don't think of this one but this can work also. you run then stop in front of them they are confused for a sec which is long enough for them to get super grabed and their face smashed up against the wall for amusement. roll>720+P The basic everyone says this is so old and used and stupid and obvious but hey I still get people in this a lot of them. With maki people forget that she is somewhat of a throw character so i still get them. haha losers tick>720 either have to be fast or use a slow move so you don't have to do the 720 really quickly. nothing i can say about this one really. The ones that i would use is the run one, the d.mp jumping one, and rolling one. i think they are good ideas don't use them all the time i mainly kill them with normal moves and her running stuff. Hope ive helped. Jesus loves you all and is just a prayer away. -Pickledude- Posted by Kechu on 03:09:2002 01:43 AM: First of all I use P groove....and that's it. So, I can't run. qcf+wk,wk>720+p: This is the most frequent one I land. Most of the time I do it after I hit the opponent out of the air by a c.HP. After that, wait for 0.5secs then start the command run. dash, 720+p: I haven't use it once cos I'm too used to the qcf+K,LK--->720+P. I know the theory works. Yes, you can follow up after a c.HP. s.HK, 720+P: I only figured this out a few weeks ago. I think there are a few ways of landing the this trap properly. - (short)Jump-in/bounce of the wall and attack. In most cases, everyone will block down after blocking up from a jump-in attack. Do a s.HK. It will whiff ...there will be your prize. - Time a s.HK when they just wake up. This needs a bit of pracitce but shouldn't be hard. - Once again, do it after a c.HP as an anti-air. You must tick a while. qcf+K,HK, 720+P: Someone mentioned it earlier. It is used as a cross-up? That would be hard cos there are different sizes of characters. Size does matter. standing 720+P: I don't want to make my life any harder cos there are other better ways to land it. jump high or low down+mp>720+p: I haven't tried this at all. thx Overall, how would you guys rate Maki? Approximately where would she be ranked in the 40+ characters? Everyone has different taste in grooves. What groove is she best in? Posted by Dasrik on 03:09:2002 06:47 AM: I just started playing Maki recently, and I've got a few random notes: * people are lazy, and want successful strategies spoonfed to them * s.forward is her single button of choice. * c.fierce is really good anti-air, but it must be done EARLY (think Yamazaki's s.strong) * everyone mentions KKK as perfect anti-crossup but I have better success by walking a slight step forward then doing close RH. I find it more reliable, and it doesn't cost you life. * I'm limiting my use of the runs. They're good occasionally, but abuse them and your opponent will counter every time leaving you with one less "dope tactic" to use. * it's hard, but you can counter the "jump straight up" tactic by stopping your run early and doing c.fierce. Alternately, RC a lunge fist (hard but doable). * Maki can and probably should grapple. If you see a jump-in nothing coming, hcf grab that shit. Her punch throw is good and allows you to cross up (wait then sj.forward with forward kick), and her kick throw does a lot of damage if mashed. 720 is good too if you can do the motion without being really obvious about it. * I need a custom with her that can't be ducked. Roundhouse x12, C.RH, S.Jab, sj. forward kick, 720 does a lot of damage, but won't hit crouchers. * Alternately, you can use her A-Groove meter on a corner mixup. Activate, then run with alternate forward and roundhouse enders. Try to keep them blocking. If one connects, launch with c. fierce x2 (as soon as Maki touches ground), then jump after them with a forward kick into 720. * I like her in A-Groove mainly for the corner mixup and because her supers tend to miss more often than I'd like. I'm thinking of switching her to N-Groove if I don't find a good custom, though. Posted by Kechu on 03:13:2002 12:55 PM: "bump" A thread certainly I wouldn't wanna let it go so soon. What's this thing about abusing the qcf+P? I hardly use the HP version cos it is vulnerable to a roll. The LP and MP has almost the same range as the s.MK. Is it worth abusing? Posted by znzf on 03:13:2002 03:04 PM: how does a person without a long ranged poke like (nakoruru) fight versus maki? how does a person fight maki period, once she gets u on the ground she can just keep running and throwing u or something could u roll out of her cammand run and throw ? Posted by Zoiks! on 03:15:2002 05:53 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik I just started playing Maki recently, and I've got a few random notes: * I need a custom with her that can't be ducked. Roundhouse x12, C.RH, S.Jab, sj. forward kick, 720 does a lot of damage, but won't hit crouchers. Here's a custom that can't be ducked: cr. HK, close st. HP, st. WP(whiff), [j. MPx3-6]x4, j. MP, air 720+P It's boring and goofy looking, but it does around 7000pts... Zoiks! All times are GMT. The time now is 11:43 PM. 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